On this episode of It’s Never About Money, I am joined by Philip Pryor, CEO and founder of Family Business Central. With over 28 years of experience advising family businesses across New Zealand, Australia, London, and New York, Phil blends his expertise in family psychology, change management, and business strategy to help families thrive personally and professionally.

In our conversation, Phil discusses how family harmony and strong relationships are crucial to both business success and personal well-being. We explore themes like the interplay between money and family dynamics, the importance of fairness versus equality, and how to set foundations for meaningful legacies. Phil also shares practical strategies for addressing intergenerational conflicts, building robust family governance, and fostering deeper connections within families.

This episode is packed with insights for families navigating wealth, succession, and relationships. Whether you’re running a business or simply looking to strengthen your family ties, there’s something here for everyone.

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In this episode of It’s Never About Money, I welcome David Delisle. David is founder of The Awesome Stuff, an Amazon bestselling author, entrepreneur, real estate investor, speaker, and most importantly, a dad.

This episode is centred around David’s book, The Golden Quest, as we discuss teaching financial literacy to children and how to live a richer life with what is most important to you. We are also joined by my 7 year old nephew, Julian, who has read David’s book and had some interesting thoughts to share. This is a must listen for anyone wanting to breach the topic of money with the children in their lives.

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It’s no secret that I take children’s financial literacy very seriously. It’s always top of mind for me and everyone at Stephan Independent Advisory. If I’m not interviewing my nephew or niece about money concepts, or travelling to PNG to work with CUFA, then I’m most likely steering the conversation towards financial literacy on It’s Never About Money.

This week I had the great pleasure of talking to Simon Brown about this very topic. Simon is co-CEO of Banqer, a simulated online banking for your classroom. It provides a hands-on environment for kids to get curious, creative, and ultimately, confident with money. The platform has reached over half a million school students across Australasia. In his role, Simon combines his deep passion for finance, technology, and education to empower teachers and elevate students’ financial literacy and overall well-being. 

Our conversation explored the challenges of making financial concepts engaging and accessible in the digital age. Banqer addresses this by providing practical and relevant financial education through simulations. Students from primary to senior secondary school manage mock online bank accounts, earn fictitious wages, and pay expenses, mimicking real-world financial scenarios. This approach not only makes learning enjoyable but also imparts essential life skills.

A significant part of our discussion centred on the role of schools in financial literacy. Simon emphasised that financial literacy should be an integral part of the curriculum. Money matters are always going to be a big part of life, because in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.

But as well as financial education in schools, we addressed the challenge of financial inequality and the varying levels of financial literacy among parents and adults. Schools, Simon suggested, can serve as potential equalisers by incorporating financial literacy into the curriculum. This helps students bring these concepts home and support their families, fostering a culture of financial awareness and well-being.

Reflecting on our discussion, it’s evident that financial literacy is more than just numbers; it’s about shaping a life of meaning and fulfilment. As we navigate an increasingly complex world, equipping the next generation with the tools to make sound financial decisions is paramount. I hope this episode inspires you to engage in financial conversations at home and support initiatives that promote financial literacy in schools.

To hear the full conversation with Simon Brown, listen to episode 62 of It’s Never About Money.

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In this episode of It’s Never About Money, I am joined by Maya Marcus, CEO of Kids in Philanthropy. Kids in Philanthropy is a not for profit focused on supporting young people experiencing disadvantage by empowering the next generation of Australians to be philanthropists; giving their time, talent and treasure to those in need.

In this episode we explore the impact children can make through socially responsible causes and charitable giving. We discuss the importance of engaging the next generation in giving their time, talent, and treasure to support those in need, and how such involvement can create lasting change.

Enjoy the episode!

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In this episode of It’s Never About Money, I had the absolute pleasure to be joined by Scott Rick, Associate Professor of Marketing at the University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business.

Scott’s research, which spans across marketing, psychology, economics, and neuroscience, provides a science-based guide to understanding and transforming how we manage money in relationships.

In the episode, we talked about a raft of topics including tightwads vs spendthrifts and communal vs exchange relationships, but there was one topic that I found particularly fascinating. That topic was blurring income differences for a more harmonious relationship.

What is blurring income differences?

The concept of blurring income differences for harmony in relationships is that by commingling all incoming money into a shared joint account and treating it as “ours” rather than “mine” or “yours”, couples can minimise the impact of income disparities on their relationship. This approach creates a sense of equality and shared responsibility when it comes to managing finances, which in turn promotes harmony and reduces potential conflicts.

One key aspect of blurring income differences is the psychological distance with shared funds and its impact on purchasing power. When one partner feels distant from the money and perceives it as an allowance rather than shared resources, it can lead to feelings of inequality and limitations in what can be done with the money. This can create disharmony and strain the relationship, especially if one partner is a spendthrift while the other is a tightwad.

Tightwads and Spendthrifts

The terms spendthrift and tightwad come from Scott Rick’s book, “Tightwads and Spendthrifts: Navigating the Money Minefield in Real Relationships.” I highly recommend giving it a read. In the book, Scott explains that a spendthrift is someone who tends to spend money excessively or impulsively, often without much consideration for budgeting or saving. They may prioritise immediate gratification over long-term financial goals and may struggle with overspending.

On the other hand, a tightwad is someone who is overly cautious or reluctant to spend money, even when it may be necessary or reasonable to do so. Tightwads typically prefer to save rather than spend and may feel anxious or uncomfortable about parting with their money, even for essential purchases.

If a couple in a relationship fall on both ends of this spectrum, which they often do, it’s even more reason to adopt the strategy of blurring income differences. In the episode, Scott explains an ideal account structure to help relationships thrive and succeed. 

By blurring income differences and treating all money as joint funds, couples can avoid pitfalls and foster a sense of unity in their financial decisions. This approach can help partners feel equally invested in managing their finances and empower them to make decisions together that benefit the relationship as a whole. It also allows for greater transparency and open communication about financial matters, which is crucial for building trust and mutual understanding.

To hear the full conversation with Scott Rick, listen to episode 60 of It’s Never About Money.

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It’s always refreshing to sit down with someone like Alex Kirby.

Alex Kirby, Founder and CEO of Total Family Management (TFM), is a visionary leader based in the Washington DC-Baltimore area. He established TFM in 2022, driven by the belief that family is central to everyone’s life. 

In our conversation, we discussed and dissected the Five Forms of Family Capital, as developed by Jay Hughes. These forms of capital are essential for families to consider in order to enhance their overall well-being and success. 

I thought it would be a good idea to explain the five capitals, as we go into them in depth in the episode!

Human Capital

The human capital of a family consists of the individuals who make up the family. Their human capital includes their physical and emotional wellbeing as well as each member’s ability to find meaningful work, establish a positive sense of identity, and pursue his or her own happiness.

Social Capital

Social capital refers to family members’ relationships with each other and with their communities. No family exists without some social capital. Some key indicators of it include the family’s ability to make thoughtful, shared decisions together; to welcome new members into itself; and to give of itself—in time, talent, and treasure—to the larger society of which it is a part.

Cultural Capital

Cultural capital encompasses the values, beliefs, traditions, languages, and cultural resources transmitted within the family. It includes knowledge of cultural norms, customs, and practices, as well as exposure to cultural activities, literature, arts, and heritage. Cultural capital contributes to identity formation, social cohesion, and the intergenerational transmission of values and traditions within the family.

Intellectual Capital

The intellectual capital of a family is composed of the knowledge gained through the life experiences of each family member or what each family member knows.

Some signs of intellectual capital include family members’ academic successes, career growth, artistic achievements, their understanding of their individual and family finances, and their ability to teach and learn from each other about what they know.

Financial Capital

The financial capital of a family is the property it owns. This property may include cash, public securities, privately held company stock, and interests

in private partnerships. 

Financial capital greatly contributes to families’ ability to cultivate their other forms of capital. It makes possible quality health care, education, philanthropy, and the time and opportunities to come together and talk about building and sustaining a shared dream. The opportunity to cultivate these qualitative assets is a great gift, which financial capital makes possible.

To learn more about the five forms of family capital, listen to episode 59 of It’s Never About Money with Alex Kirby.

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It’s a universal desire for a parent to see their child follow in their footsteps.

For this week’s guests, Trevor and Michael Back, this was achieved, but not as you would have expected it to.

Their story didn’t follow the traditional path of a father transitioning his son into the family business.

In fact, the story played out completely differently.

Trevor Back is a former management consultant and real-estate principal. He built his business career on a foundation of client experience excellence. Having recently sold his market-leading Sydney Raine & Horne franchise, Trevor is now in the process of transitioning to retirement and redefining what it is that gives him purpose in life.

His son, Michael Back, is a business consultant and owner of Human to Human – a consultancy business that helps good financial advice businesses become great, one human interaction at a time.

Trevor’s 5-year plan with Raine & Horne was to build a successful business, transition into retirement, and see Michael take over. Michael, however, didn’t want to run the business.

Instead, Michael came in as a consultant to work closely with his father’s business and team. He helped set up the systems and processes to allow the business to thrive, and to make Trevor’s transition into retirement as smooth as possible.

So why didn’t Michael want to take over the business?

The answer is simple: he was drawing on lessons and experiences learned by a life of observing his father at work. Michael had seen Trevor believe in himself and back himself to create his successful career, and Michael wanted to do the same.

“I think by that stage I had accepted the importance of backing yourself, and listening to your gut, and not living someone else’s version of success, but believing in your own.”

Michael may not have followed Trevor’s career trajectory, but he did emulate his father’s instinct and confidence to help for his own path in life.

It may not be in the traditional sense, but Michael did follow in his father’s footsteps.

To hear the full conversation, listen to episode 40 of It’s Never About Money.

Find out more:

> Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljback/
> Find out more about Human to Human: https://humantohuman.com.au/

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Do the youth know the value of money?

How do we foster and encourage young entrepreneurs? 

Is there enough financial education in our schooling system?

These are the kinds of questions being asked by this week’s guest, Matt Heine.

Matt is Joint Managing Director of Netwealth, an ASX-listed financial services and technology company, started by his family to service investors and the wealth management industry.

Matt is passionate about improving the lives of Australians, specifically their financial education. He champions Netwealth’s partnership with Banqer – a virtual classroom economy where school children can learn to earn, save, spend and invest their money.

He aims to create financial literacy and capability across the country and 8,500 students, ages between 8 and 12 currently use the program with a goal of 15,000 a year.

It’s programs like Banqer that can boost financial literacy for the next generation. Matt says it’s his goal to get every school student in Australia into this program. That way kids can gain a deeper understanding of finance and money AND can apply that knowledge in the real world.

Matt’s quest for improving financial literacy doesn’t stop there. His eight-year-old son, Harry, has just bought his first stocks. Matt set up an investment account where he would double the pocket-money Harry deposited into it. (Don’t get used to that rate, mate).

Soon Harry has (with a bit of help from Matt)  invested $100 across three companies: Alphabet, Microsoft and Apple.

Now THAT’S how you foster a young entrepreneur.

To hear the full conversation, listen to Episode 31 of It’s Never About Money.

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Generational storytelling is the glue that keeps families, and family wealth, together.

This is a line of thinking that our guest, Mike Boyd, holds as paramount to the success and longevity of a multigenerational business family. Intentionally engaging in telling the story of a family will help develop and preserve the family’s legacy.

Mike is the co-owner and CEO of the Vroom group, founder of Prosura Insurance, an investor at Mudbrick Capital, an active YPO member, and host of the Business of Family Podcast.

Some families practise storytelling by creating a family museum or archive. They collate media clippings or any mention in newspapers of a member of the family enterprise in order to capture the fabric of the founding story. They intentionally preserve the legacy for future generations.

Mike actively practises storytelling within his family. Once a year right after Christmas, he writes letters addressed to his children for them to open when they are older. The letters can include anything from a recount of the significant events throughout the year, or a list of the family’s achievements and memories, or simply just where the family is living at the time.

Another way Mike and his family create tradition and tell their story is by taking a photo in the same spot on their property every year. Each year they can see how their children are growing and how the family is developing.

“It’s a bit of fun, but what we’re really doing is building the assets of the family and the history of it,” explains Mike.

Whether it’s sitting around a campfire and listening to the elders of the family tell their stories, or intentionally documenting the family’s history through books, podcasts, letters or photos; storytelling is incredibly important. These stories weave the fabric of the family legacy.

By maintaining and retelling the history of a family, future generations will know what the family stands for, where they came from, and who they are.

Hear the full conversation with Mike Boyd about generational storytelling in Episode 30 of It’s Never About Money.

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Everyone’s transition into retirement is different; every individual succession plan is unique and a personalised process.

Succession planning done right not only means that the business can keep thriving and maintain continuity after you’ve transitioned out, but it also means that you can maintain continuity within your own life when you find yourself without the responsibility of running a business.

Albert Pisconeri, started thinking about his succession plan when he was struck with cancer 15 years ago. The health scare forced him into thinking about it, “not for the bad side of wanting to get out, but to see the future and where it was going.”

Albert is a Director of Pisconeri Fine Foods and Wines, a third-generation family owned business operating in continental foods, wines and kitchenware, servicing everything from supermarkets, to cafés, to restaurants and everything in between. Pisconeri Fine Foods and Wines is a part of Countrywide Food Service Distributors and Albert has sat on the board since 2020.

Continuity of business is of key importance when dealing with succession but, for the individual, a smooth transition out of the business and into retirement is crucial.

Albert explains that, “People who do retire end up doing nothing because they have nothing to do in retirement.”

As you relinquish responsibilities in the workplace, or as a business owner, you have to find enjoyment and activities to keep you occupied and keep you busy. This is especially true if your sense of work is tied to your business.

For Albert the transition into retirement is aided by a plethora of hobbies and activities such as surf lifesaving, walking, karate, photography and football. The most important thing, however, is family.

As a dogged and passionate worker, Albert’s biggest regret is time he didn’t spend with his family. He used to pride himself on always being at work and brag about how much holiday time he was owed. On reflection, Albert is embarrassed by this and admits he wished he focussed on what matters most – his family.

Listen to the full conversation on Episode 23 of It’s Never About Money.

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